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	<title>Comments on: Topalov beats Kamsky 4.5-2.5, qualifies for World Championship Final</title>
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	<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/exciting-7th-match-game-topalov-kamsky/</link>
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		<title>By: Michel83</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/exciting-7th-match-game-topalov-kamsky/comment-page-2/#comment-94190</link>
		<dc:creator>Michel83</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=8631#comment-94190</guid>
		<description>@ me

On a off-topic side note, that&#039;s completely wrong (at least in my country, no idea about yours).
The answer to your question is NO (as said, at least in my country). There is certain parts of constitution, and the &quot;principle of democracy&quot; and &quot;principle of rule of law&quot; are two of them, that can&#039;t be changed by a vote; they are written down in the constitution as &quot;unchangeable&quot; (and that is &quot;unchenageable&quot; too) by any means. 
The only way to change them would be by undemocratic means, eg military force.

I don&#039;t even need to argue that a Law can be contested at the constitutional court, because it doesn&#039;t matter. No matter if 2/3, 4/5 or all of the parliament would vote for such a thing: It is NOT possible (as said, at least in my country) to declare yourself as absolute ruler for life through a vote in parliament. 
The guys who wrote the constitution of my country were smart enough declare certain principles as unchangeable even by vote. You&#039;re free to think that&#039;s good or bad, but your statement above is wrong in my country.

Completely off-topic and not important for your point, I know, but still...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ me</p>
<p>On a off-topic side note, that&#8217;s completely wrong (at least in my country, no idea about yours).<br />
The answer to your question is NO (as said, at least in my country). There is certain parts of constitution, and the &#8220;principle of democracy&#8221; and &#8220;principle of rule of law&#8221; are two of them, that can&#8217;t be changed by a vote; they are written down in the constitution as &#8220;unchangeable&#8221; (and that is &#8220;unchenageable&#8221; too) by any means.<br />
The only way to change them would be by undemocratic means, eg military force.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t even need to argue that a Law can be contested at the constitutional court, because it doesn&#8217;t matter. No matter if 2/3, 4/5 or all of the parliament would vote for such a thing: It is NOT possible (as said, at least in my country) to declare yourself as absolute ruler for life through a vote in parliament.<br />
The guys who wrote the constitution of my country were smart enough declare certain principles as unchangeable even by vote. You&#8217;re free to think that&#8217;s good or bad, but your statement above is wrong in my country.</p>
<p>Completely off-topic and not important for your point, I know, but still&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Guillaume</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/exciting-7th-match-game-topalov-kamsky/comment-page-2/#comment-94189</link>
		<dc:creator>Guillaume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=8631#comment-94189</guid>
		<description>@me: so there is a limit to your acceptance of what FIDE decides to call a world champion after all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@me: so there is a limit to your acceptance of what FIDE decides to call a world champion after all?</p>
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		<title>By: me</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/exciting-7th-match-game-topalov-kamsky/comment-page-2/#comment-94185</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=8631#comment-94185</guid>
		<description>To explain my last paragraph, I give you a counter question: Can a Senate/Parliament (or whatever it is called) in your country change the constitution and declare themselves as the absolute rulers for life? 

The answer is YES. They can do that by 2/3 (or whatever it is prescribed) majority of votes. However there will probably be uprising of the people and they will depose them soon. By force.

It&#039;s the same concearning FIDE and Ilyumzhinov. They CAN do that. But it probably wouldn&#039;t end well for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To explain my last paragraph, I give you a counter question: Can a Senate/Parliament (or whatever it is called) in your country change the constitution and declare themselves as the absolute rulers for life? </p>
<p>The answer is YES. They can do that by 2/3 (or whatever it is prescribed) majority of votes. However there will probably be uprising of the people and they will depose them soon. By force.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the same concearning FIDE and Ilyumzhinov. They CAN do that. But it probably wouldn&#8217;t end well for them.</p>
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		<title>By: me</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/exciting-7th-match-game-topalov-kamsky/comment-page-2/#comment-94184</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:19:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=8631#comment-94184</guid>
		<description>OK, maybe I used the wrong word - I am not a native speaker. I perfectly aware of all the changes in the past and current world championship cycles. I am totally against those kind of changes. However this doesn&#039;t change anything at all. Like it or not FIDE is the only worldwide chess organization, and is thus the only governing body that can crown a World Champion. What I or you think about it, is totally irrelevant.

And to answer Guillaume: Yes, they can do that. Ilyumzhinov would be World Champion then. However I would most likely stop following professional chess in that case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, maybe I used the wrong word &#8211; I am not a native speaker. I perfectly aware of all the changes in the past and current world championship cycles. I am totally against those kind of changes. However this doesn&#8217;t change anything at all. Like it or not FIDE is the only worldwide chess organization, and is thus the only governing body that can crown a World Champion. What I or you think about it, is totally irrelevant.</p>
<p>And to answer Guillaume: Yes, they can do that. Ilyumzhinov would be World Champion then. However I would most likely stop following professional chess in that case.</p>
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		<title>By: Guillaume</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/exciting-7th-match-game-topalov-kamsky/comment-page-2/#comment-94183</link>
		<dc:creator>Guillaume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=8631#comment-94183</guid>
		<description>@me: with such a relaxed definition of what is a world champion, the FIDE board could announce tomorrow that the new world champion has been decided by a vote (in compliance with the &quot;whatever&quot; rule you mention above), and that its recipient is the great Kirsan Ilyumzhinov.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@me: with such a relaxed definition of what is a world champion, the FIDE board could announce tomorrow that the new world champion has been decided by a vote (in compliance with the &#8220;whatever&#8221; rule you mention above), and that its recipient is the great Kirsan Ilyumzhinov.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/exciting-7th-match-game-topalov-kamsky/comment-page-2/#comment-94182</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=8631#comment-94182</guid>
		<description>Concerning you first paragraph, yep I got you wrong - I thought you wanted to imply that Topalov now _is_ as dominant as Kasparov was in the past. So that&#039;s cleared up, now all I can say is &quot;I agree with you (on that point)&quot;.

But you confused me with something else: &quot;changes during the cycles are unheard of&quot;. ????? Did you miss lots of discussions here and elsewhere? Changes DID occur during the ongoing cycle - well, maybe all changes announced during the Dresden Olympiad will be nullified again. &quot;Ongoing cycle&quot; here refers to the one that will determine the challenger of Anand or Topalov (whoever wins their upcoming match - whenever/wherever that one happens, time, location and sponsors are not yet known ....).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerning you first paragraph, yep I got you wrong &#8211; I thought you wanted to imply that Topalov now _is_ as dominant as Kasparov was in the past. So that&#8217;s cleared up, now all I can say is &#8220;I agree with you (on that point)&#8221;.</p>
<p>But you confused me with something else: &#8220;changes during the cycles are unheard of&#8221;. ????? Did you miss lots of discussions here and elsewhere? Changes DID occur during the ongoing cycle &#8211; well, maybe all changes announced during the Dresden Olympiad will be nullified again. &#8220;Ongoing cycle&#8221; here refers to the one that will determine the challenger of Anand or Topalov (whoever wins their upcoming match &#8211; whenever/wherever that one happens, time, location and sponsors are not yet known &#8230;.).</p>
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		<title>By: me</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/exciting-7th-match-game-topalov-kamsky/comment-page-2/#comment-94179</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=8631#comment-94179</guid>
		<description>Thomas, now you confused me. I said that the time did tell (that he is not as dominant as Kasparov). And you are saying....what?


Only for a brief period (between 1993 and 1996) there were two governing bodies. Only in that period there have been two World Champions for me. At all other time there was only one governing body - FIDE. Valid rules are the rules that are curently in effect. Frequent changes of rules are bad, changes during the cycles are unheard of. Still it doesn&#039;t change anything. The one who wins the match/tournament/game/coin flip/whatever called &quot;World Championships&quot; is the world champion. It&#039;s like that in any sport. Whoever wins the World championships is the world champion, irrespective of what he does at all other competitions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas, now you confused me. I said that the time did tell (that he is not as dominant as Kasparov). And you are saying&#8230;.what?</p>
<p>Only for a brief period (between 1993 and 1996) there were two governing bodies. Only in that period there have been two World Champions for me. At all other time there was only one governing body &#8211; FIDE. Valid rules are the rules that are curently in effect. Frequent changes of rules are bad, changes during the cycles are unheard of. Still it doesn&#8217;t change anything. The one who wins the match/tournament/game/coin flip/whatever called &#8220;World Championships&#8221; is the world champion. It&#8217;s like that in any sport. Whoever wins the World championships is the world champion, irrespective of what he does at all other competitions.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/exciting-7th-match-game-topalov-kamsky/comment-page-2/#comment-94176</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=8631#comment-94176</guid>
		<description>@me:
&quot;I argued that he has a lot of miles before him until we can start to compare him [Topalov] with Kasparov. I said that only time will tell if he can mantain that dominance. And the time did tell.&quot;
IMO, time did NOT tell, at least not yet. Looking at the most recent FIDE rating lists, Topalov become #1 (again) in October 2008 [four players within striking distance of 10 points] and maintained this spot in the January 2009 list [Anand only five points behind]. Things look more convincing in the live rating list, and will do so in the next FIDE list (including his Nanjing result), but that&#039;s still a far cry from &quot;maintaining dominance&quot; - I think most people, including Topalov himself, do not argue with such facts.

Concerning your shorter follow-up post, I have my own &quot;buts and ifs&quot;: First, who is the &quot;governing organisation&quot;? During a certain period there were two, FIDE and PCA. Second, what (exactly) are the &quot;valid rules&quot;? - if they keep changing, not only between cycles but even during an ongoing cycle. Third, for me it is (and will always remain) legitimate to distinguish between tournament or match and KO lottery champions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@me:<br />
&#8220;I argued that he has a lot of miles before him until we can start to compare him [Topalov] with Kasparov. I said that only time will tell if he can mantain that dominance. And the time did tell.&#8221;<br />
IMO, time did NOT tell, at least not yet. Looking at the most recent FIDE rating lists, Topalov become #1 (again) in October 2008 [four players within striking distance of 10 points] and maintained this spot in the January 2009 list [Anand only five points behind]. Things look more convincing in the live rating list, and will do so in the next FIDE list (including his Nanjing result), but that&#8217;s still a far cry from &#8220;maintaining dominance&#8221; &#8211; I think most people, including Topalov himself, do not argue with such facts.</p>
<p>Concerning your shorter follow-up post, I have my own &#8220;buts and ifs&#8221;: First, who is the &#8220;governing organisation&#8221;? During a certain period there were two, FIDE and PCA. Second, what (exactly) are the &#8220;valid rules&#8221;? &#8211; if they keep changing, not only between cycles but even during an ongoing cycle. Third, for me it is (and will always remain) legitimate to distinguish between tournament or match and KO lottery champions.</p>
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		<title>By: Guillaume</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/exciting-7th-match-game-topalov-kamsky/comment-page-2/#comment-94172</link>
		<dc:creator>Guillaume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=8631#comment-94172</guid>
		<description>@me: After San Luis 2005, it was quite clear for everybody that counts (with the notable and understandably biased exception of Kasparov) that although Topalov was the new FIDE world champion, he still had to beat Kramnik in order to be recognized as the one and only world champion. Had it not been the case, the 2006 WC match in Elista would have had not reason to ever take place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@me: After San Luis 2005, it was quite clear for everybody that counts (with the notable and understandably biased exception of Kasparov) that although Topalov was the new FIDE world champion, he still had to beat Kramnik in order to be recognized as the one and only world champion. Had it not been the case, the 2006 WC match in Elista would have had not reason to ever take place.</p>
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		<title>By: me</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/exciting-7th-match-game-topalov-kamsky/comment-page-2/#comment-94169</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=8631#comment-94169</guid>
		<description>In case you wonder what my last post is all about:

It is an addendum to the long post which is currently pending approval by the moderator. So you will have to wait a little to see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case you wonder what my last post is all about:</p>
<p>It is an addendum to the long post which is currently pending approval by the moderator. So you will have to wait a little to see it.</p>
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