Player caught cheating at German Championship

A participant of the German Championship, which concluded on Friday in Bonn, was caught cheating. FM Christoph Natsidis used a chess program on his smartphone during his last-round game against GM Sebastian Siebrecht to analyse a position from the game. The 23-year-old player from Bannewitz, Germany admitted that he cheated, and was excluded from the tournament, missing out on an IM norm he had scored after 8 rounds.
Christoph Natsidis | Photo © official website Yesterday another example was added to the growing list of cheating cases in chess. In a message put on their website, the organizers of the German Championship communicated that one of their participants, FM Christoph Natsidis, had been excluded from the tournament. His last-round game against GM Sebastian Siebrecht was declared lost after Natsidis had admitted that he used his smartphone, equipped with a strong chess program, during the game. Today we spoke on the phone with Natsidis' opponent Sebastian Siebrecht, and here's what he told us:
"We had reached a complicated position. I had taken on b2 which was a bit risky. However, in a very concrete position where calculating was necessary, he was constantly away from the board. Three times, I made a move and it took 8-10 minutes for him to show up at the board. Naturally I started looking for him and I even waited for a while in the toilets. One toilet was occupied, but I didn't hear any typical 'toilet sounds'. During the game [Igor] Khenkin came to me and asked: 'What's going on? Where is your opponent?' I decided to go to the arbiter and try to find Natsidis together. Then, indeed, we did find him in the toilet, but the arbiter did nothing, which made me very angry. I could not play a normal game anymore and in a position that was still complicated, I decided to offer a draw, which he accepted."
This is not where it ended, because after the game the arbiter decided to return to Natsidis, together with Siebrecht, to search the suspect anyway. They found a smartphone in his pocket. Siebrecht:
"Then I knew enough, and I walked away. Later the arbiter came to me and told me that he had asked if the phone had a chess program installed. Natsidis said yes, and showed it to the arbiter - the program was showing a position from our game, about five moves before the end."
Natsidis was caught red-handed, but didn't sweep it under the carpet. He went to his opponent, to apologize. Siebrecht continued:
"He came to me and admitted that he did it, and then apologized. He said: 'I'm completely stupid, I'm really sorry.' And indeed, it was very stupid of him to do it in the final round, because he had already scored his IM norm after the penultimate round."
Before the final round, Natsidis hadn't lost a game yet. Rated 2363, he drew his against Daniel Fridman (2661), Alexsandar Dranov (2465), Christian Seel (2484), Raj Tischbierek (2431), Oswald Gschnitzer (2444) and the tournament winner Igor Khenkin (2620) and beat Christoph Zill (2278) and Hans-Joachim Vatter (2326). It was enough for him to lose against Siebrecht to score an IM norm. No doubt the case will have serious consequences for Natsidis (who, as a law student, should have known better). In their message the organizers of the German Championship already mentioned that he would be excluded from future tournaments and that "other consequences are the subject of investigation after the tournament ends". The regulations of the German Chess Federation don't mention sanctions for cheating cases like this one, only a 2-year ban for doping use. This period of 2 years is borrowed from sports like cycling, where a a normal career lasts about a decade.
"Because a chess career can last forty years, the penalty for such a thing should perhaps be more than two years,"
said GM Sebastian Siebrecht. He added:
"It's absolutely necessary that any technical equipment, like phones, or tablets, or whatever, are forbidden in a tournament hall. If you take it with you, you have to deliver it to the arbiter. These days you cannot do without such a rule."
The news from Germany comes when the chess world hasn't yet forgotten another big story about cheating: in March of this year three players were declared guilty of cheating during the 2010 Olympiad in Khanty-Mansiysk. Last month, in an appeal, two of the three saw their penalties increased. Igor Khenkin won the German Championship, edging out Jan Gustafsson on tie-break. In the women's group, Sarah Hoolt finished in first place. The tournament was held in Bonn, Germany from May 26th till June 3rd. As always, you can download all games in a PGN file below. In the game viewer you can find the games most readers will be interested in: those of Christoph Natsidis.
Game viewer
Game viewer by ChessTempo
| # | Name | Title | Fed | Rating | Points | Perf |
| 1. | Khenkin, Igor | g | GER | 2620 | 6½ | 2654 |
| 2. | Gustafsson, Jan | g | GER | 2646 | 6½ | 2645 |
| 3. | Buhmann, Rainer | g | GER | 2579 | 6 | 2586 |
| 4. | Fridman, Daniel | g | GER | 2661 | 6 | 2596 |
| 5. | Gschnitzer, Oswald | m | GER | 2444 | 6 | 2561 |
| 6. | Stern, Rene | m | GER | 2483 | 5½ | 2577 |
| 7. | Huschenbeth, Niclas | m | GER | 2502 | 5½ | 2529 |
| 8. | Siebrecht, Sebastian | g | GER | 2460 | 5½ | 2505 |
| 9. | Seel, Christian | m | GER | 2484 | 5½ | 2438 |
| 10. | Natsidis, Christoph | f | GER | 2363 | 5 | 2506 |
| 11. | Tischbierek, Raj | g | GER | 2431 | 5 | 2464 |
| 12. | Svane, Rasmus | GER | 2297 | 5 | 2484 | |
| 13. | Vatter, Hans-Joachim | f | GER | 2326 | 4½ | 2381 |
| 14. | Kummerow, Heiko | f | GER | 2326 | 4½ | 2399 |
| 15. | Rietze, Clemens | GER | 2283 | 4½ | 2392 | |
| 16. | Andre, Gordon | GER | 2363 | 4½ | 2392 | |
| 17. | Jugelt, Tobias | m | GER | 2403 | 4½ | 2407 |
| 18. | Lubbe, Nikolas | GER | 2422 | 4½ | 2345 | |
| 19. | Krassowizkij, Jaroslaw | GER | 2356 | 4½ | 2329 | |
| 20. | Bastian, Herbert | m | GER | 2332 | 4½ | 2351 |
| 21. | Poetsch, Hagen | f | GER | 2424 | 4½ | 2296 |
| 22. | Mueller, Oliver | f | GER | 2327 | 4 | 2387 |
| 23. | Mertens, Heiko | GER | 2355 | 4 | 2351 | |
| 24. | Dranov, Aleksandar | UKR | 2465 | 4 | 2293 | |
| 25. | Krause, Ullrich | f | GER | 2283 | 4 | 2301 |
| 26. | Seger, Ruediger | m | GER | 2412 | 4 | 2224 |
| 27. | Strache, Michael | GER | 2317 | 3½ | 2333 | |
| 28. | Molinaroli, Martin | GER | 2286 | 3½ | 2298 | |
| 29. | Bracker, Frank | GER | 2355 | 3½ | 2276 | |
| 30. | Zill, Christoph | f | GER | 2278 | 3½ | 2219 |
















Comments
Sumit Balan
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Attention Cheaters !! If you play the move 0-0-0 (Queenside castling)with white ,then there is no need to cheat on that particular game really,because the result will automatically be 1-0 (White will win ),0-0-0 =1-0
TMM
6 months 1 week ago
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If mathematically 0-0-0 were equal to 1-0, then maybe (with emphasis on maybe) this would've been a funny comment.
Player
8 months 3 weeks ago
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There is a bigger problem here, the new generation has very low morality and no responsibility.
help
8 months 3 weeks ago
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In the past computer programs were not strong enough. And mobile phones (or other electronic devices) not small and powerful enough. That is the difference.
jussu
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Yeah the youth is rotten, as always :p
Brad Hoehne
8 months 3 weeks ago
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A relevant quote: "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt forauthority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." --- Socrates as reported by Plato
The "youth of today" always seem worse than those of previous generations to those of the elder generation.
sss
8 months 3 weeks ago
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The French and this cheater are 20 something. The risk they were taking was tremendously stupid and selfish.
Zeblakob
8 months 3 weeks ago
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lol@" ...One toilet was occupied, but I didn’t hear any typical ‘toilet sounds’. "
FP
8 months 3 weeks ago
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LIke drilling a hole for cables, setting up a computer etc, ref. toiletgate ...
Thomas
8 months 3 weeks ago
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This wasn't even the only scandal of the tournament: In round 4, GM Bindrich was two minutes late and tournament director / arbiter Ralph Alt (more widely known as judge in the Demjanjuk case) declared his game as lost. It's an official FIDE event, hence zero tolerance rules applied. Bindrich then dropped out of the tournament.
Two rounds earlier, Alt delayed the start of the round because another player wasn't yet present: FM Natsidis. As Siebrecht said in another interview, it would have been better for him (Natsidis) if he had quit the tournament at that stage ... .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73U-p_WkxZQ&feature=player_embedded [in German]
Oh well, there were also interesting games: the Evans gambit in Huschenbeth-Gustafsson was already mentioned by Chessvibes Openings. Later, "Gusti" played another remarkable game against 14-year old talent Rasmus Svane: after some complications (which, with best play, apparently should have favored the opponent) he managed to win an ending three minor pieces vs. queen (plus one pawn each) in "just" 44 moves. Carlsen couldn't win a similar ending against Shirov last year in Bilbao. I couldn't tell if Gustafsson played better than Carlsen, Svane played worse than Shirov (that's quite possible) or if a subtle difference (f-pawn against f-pawn in Bonn, e-pawn against f-pawn in Bilbao) changes the assesment of the position.
TMM
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Thanks for the comment Thomas, that gives even more to think about. Maybe ChessVibes should hire you as an editor, so that you can add such interesting facts to the story :)
S3
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Agreed Thomas always has interesting info. Thanks!
Thomas
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Thanks, but it's fine with me to leave such stuff in the comments section. I (obviously) followed the tournament as a whole, out of personal interest: in the last century, I played maybe a few dozen blitz and rapid games against one of the participants (FM Krause) and also some blitz games against - at the time - teenage rising star Gustafsson. Maybe Chessvibes didn't pay much attention to the event - they cannot follow everything, and such events attract international media attention only if there is at least one scandal (in the given case only the second one was deemed worthwhile mentioning).
Off-topic, more of the other c (chess rather than cheating): The interview with Khenkin (also part of the Youtube link I gave) is rather funny - body language and maybe even his looks remind me of Ivanchuk. It "helps" that his German is soso, and mixed with some English words. He mentions that he wanted to play on the German Olympiad team (unlike a few other players who had financial disagreements with the federation) but wasn't chosen because he is considered too old. Khenkin is 43, about the same age as Anand and Gelfand. I am also 43, share an interest in chess with those guys - but am not nearly good enough to play in Kazan, Khanty-Mansiysk and/or wherever the next world championship match will be held :)
S3
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Stupid arbiter. I hate it when they rigidly interpret laws and regulations instead of using them for a fair purpose. I guess law student Natsidis shows promise of being just as good a judge as Alt. Bwegh!
RealityCheck
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Naughty boy that Natsidis. Outlaw. But, at least he admitted his stupidity.
Sumit Balan
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Rekthna would never do such a thing ! FIDE should ban these cheaters for Life !!!
Mental 'Balan'c...
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Sounds like Sumit has lost some 'Balan'ce with these constant silly posts.
sumitbalan
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Thats what they said about Fischer too ! so i take it as a complement :)..but let me tell you,i am as sane as American President !
Arne Moll
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Though I think cheating is overrated as a problem, this is indeed a clear case of it. But notice how risky is was for Natsidis, and how small the possible reward was: he was bound to get caught even against a less attentive opponent than Siebrecht.
Perhaps cheating in chess should be treated as a form of compulsive addiction rather than a clever way to improve one's rating ;-)
TMM
8 months 3 weeks ago
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"But notice how risky is was for Natsidis, and how small the possible reward was: he was bound to get caught even against a less attentive opponent than Siebrecht."
If he had not cheated in the last round but just played and lost, he would have scored an IM norm. So your statements that (a) he would get caught anyway and (b) there is no reward both make no sense.
And note that the only cases of cheating we hear of are cases where the cheater got caught. Do you honestly think those are all the cases? There may be players like Natsidis who did not take such unnecessary risks and got away with it, getting a free IM norm.
ejh
8 months 3 weeks ago
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And note that the only cases of cheating we hear of are cases where the cheater got caught. Do you honestly think those are all the cases? There may be players like Natsidis who did not take such unnecessary risks and got away with it
Well the answer is that we won't know whether there are any such successful long-term cheaters until one of them gets caught and it shown to have cheated (or confesses to it) over a long-term period.
As it is, while it's possible for individuals to cheat, the fact that it is very hard to do so without drawing attention to oneself by being away from the board a lot is a serious problem for the long-term cheater. The risks of getting caught are very high. (And if you get away with it once, are you going to leave it at that, or try again? And again, until you do get caught?)
Not sure what we're going to do about phones though. Next month I'm playing in an open tournament with several hundred participants. What are the arbiters supposed to do, have a table with five hundred mobiles on it?
Thomas
8 months 3 weeks ago
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One problem is that it's hard to catch a cheater: suspicious behavior is no proof whatsoever. There may be valid reasons for being away from the board a lot ("I cannot handle the opponent's aftershave or garlic breath") and even for frequent toilet visits (diarrhea or just being extremely nervous during the game).
As a matter of fact, Natsidis could have known that he was under suspicion - it doesn't happen every day that the opponent and arbiter wait for you in front of the toilet. Yet, to Siebrecht's disappointment, the arbiter "did nothing", i.e. didn't search Natsidis' pockets while the game was still in progress. What if Natsidis had then been 'smart' enough to flush his smartphone down the toilet at the next occasion??
Thomas
8 months 3 weeks ago
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We don't know if Natsidis cheated in earlier rounds - if he did he wasn't caught. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that he cheated in earlier games - would it make sense to cheat only in the final round? He had already achieved one aim (an IM norm), the last round was about icing on the cake: some prize money, roughly 400-600 Euros. You might have a point about "compulsive addiction", combined with a false sense of security: "I wasn't caught on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, why should I be caught on Friday?" And maybe not every arbiter takes the opponent's complaints seriously.
"how risky it was for Natsidis" - hmm, which risk did he actually take? I guess he is an amateur who doesn't aim for a professional chess career (Elo 2363 at his age of 23 isn't that promising after all). He may now have to find another hobby, or play chess only on the Internet, that's basically it. Unless it has consequences for his forthcoming career in law, before it even starts?!
TMM
8 months 3 weeks ago
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I have to admit I do not understand Natsidis' reasoning anyway, and I think you're right that it must be some sort of compulsive addiction. But I do not believe that he only cheated in the final round, since that makes even less sense; Have the tournament of your life and cheat in the final round only for some prize money, but risking your whole career and the IM norm? I do not believe this was his first attempt.
S3
8 months 3 weeks ago
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To you it's not a problem but an advantage maybe :) ?
help
8 months 3 weeks ago
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I'm wondering if you are not suffering from some sort of cognitive dissonance about this issue.
At some point you have formed an opinion and from then on, no matter how much evidence to the contrary, you keep sticking to your original opinion.
Arne Moll
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Not at all, help. I don't deny the cheating cases and I can see the problems with mobile phones, etc. It's just that I think it's (still) a very time-consuming, impractical and risky way of achieving success, where much more can be lost than gained.
And all speculation about situations where cheating has not been actually established is just that: speculation.
That said, I do hate it when everybody states the obvious ("cheating is bad", "everything used to be better in the old days", etc.) - sometimes it can't hurt putting things into perspective.
Zomerschaker
8 months 2 weeks ago
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Hi Arne, it seems that you have written about this subject before. I am curious how you want to put this in perspective. Maybe that the chess world is the cheater's social environment and that it would make a punishment of, say 10 years, too harsh on him? Or, as you say, that cheating is a kind of addiction and that the cheater needs to be treated?
SXL
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Arne Moll is totally out to lunch on cheating in chess. First of all, our German computer adept may have cheated in earlier games in this tournament, thus being totally undeserving of the IM-norm in the first place. It also affect the standings of the other players he met, of course, if he was taking recourse to a computer program.
It's all over the place, and needs to be dealt with severely. But as a law student, he probably risks being thrown out of the law school, and that's pretty serious punishment.
MH
8 months 3 weeks ago
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I prefer losing to winning by cheating.
hc
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Perhaps because chess to you is just a hobby not not your livelihood.
help
8 months 3 weeks ago
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There is rampant cheating on the online servers. (As in pretty much any online games unless they have extremely strong protection against it.)
Which would invalidate your argument.
Also: it's possible to be a professional and still have honor and ethics.
hc
8 months 3 weeks ago
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I guess you don't follow professional cycling ( or if you are an American baseball ).
mvhx
8 months 3 weeks ago
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It is encouraging to see the French Chess Federation imposing stiff penalties for cheating and raising the penalty bar for those who choose to appeal their ruling. I'm all for innocent until proven guilty, but the evidence in both cases is pretty overwhelming, not to mention admissions of guilt by at least some of the parties involved.
It would be nice to see some clear rules and strong penalties imposed by FIDE regarding this problem. I am also not opposed to hacking off one of the offender's fingers as an additional deterrent. Why not? :-)
AAR
8 months 3 weeks ago
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The facts are........we really don't know how long he had this "chess program" on his phone! Maybe he has been using it for a long time! Hard questions need to be asked about this sort of thing because it keeps coming up, especially with more pda's and recordkeeping devices along with mobile phones with google and excellent memory capabilities........we will see more...rather than less of this sort of thing! Thank goodness his opponent counted his "bathroom breaks"...lol
David
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Pretty obvious Natsidis cheated in the earlier rounds, probably earlier tournaments too.
Cheating needs to be punished harshly. Can't believe some commentators here are willing to give him a free pass because he confessed once he was caught.
Best to ban him 10+ years, strip his FM title, and forever black mark him as a cheater (between Natsidis and the French guys, we are going to need a new informant symbol for cheating). Additionally, Germany should give him a lifetime ban from their Championship.
Why am I not surprised he is studying to be a lawyer....
Janis Nisii
8 months 3 weeks ago
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David, I agree on all you wrote but...
"Why am I not surprised he is studying to be a lawyer…."
Hey! I'll wait for you outside :P
max
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Online games-- who can tell? I played in blitz once, the opponent repeatedly disconnected from server on his move to gain time on the clock . Not content with just winning, he sent an insulting message at the end.
Septimus
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Ban his ass for 10yrs and call it a day.
Ruben
8 months 3 weeks ago
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I think is its very credible and plausible that if someone is cheating in the last round of the tournement the cheating also took place in the previous rounds.
Because why you would cheat in only one round?
So you should exclude these players because they really harm chess.
If you look at his rating from 2363 it is not liky at all that he made so many draws
against players with more than 2600 and 2400 rating.
So I am convinced he did cheated the hole tournement.
The feasibility in this case is for me sufficient proof.
Ruben
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Haha now I have seen the games I am very sure! Computer moves all the time!
Cheating all the games for sure!
Mauricio Valdés
8 months 3 weeks ago
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I love the smell of CHEATING in the morning....
It smells... like VICTORY!
P.N.John
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Banning for 2 years is really insufficient.Maybe 5 -7 years will be a good enough deterrent.Its quite horrible considering what sort of advantage access to software gives.
Scrambled Table...
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Here is a table if they re-score all his games as losses. The table might get scrambled:
1 Khenkin, Igor 7
2 Gustafsson, Jan 6½
3 Fridman, Daniel 6½
4 Gschnitzer, Oswald 6½
5 Buhmann, Rainer 6
6 Seel, Christian 6
7 Stern, Rene 5½
8 Huschenbeth, Niclas 5½
9 Siebrecht, Sebastian 5½
10 Tischbierek, Raj 5½
11 Vatter, Hans-Joachim 5½
12 Svane, Rasmus 5
13 Zill, Christoph 4½
14 Kummerow, Heiko 4½
15 Rietze, Clemens 4½
16 Andre, Gordon 4½
17 Jugelt, Tobias 4½
18 Lubbe, Nikolas 4½
19 Krassowizkij, Jaroslaw 4½
20 Bastian, Herbert 4½
21 Poetsch, Hagen 4½
22 Dranov, Aleksandar 4½
23 Mueller, Oliver 4
24 Mertens, Heiko 4
25 Krause, Ullrich 4
26 Seger, Ruediger 4
27 Strache, Michael 3½
28 Molinaroli, Martin 3½
29 Bracker, Frank 3½
30 Natsidis, Christoph 0
Scrambled Table...
6 months 1 week ago
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Two Year Ban -
"The results of Natsidis scored at the 82nd German Championship will be annulled. All games played by him will be declared lost, and they will be declared won for his opponents. The German rating results will be corrected accordingly."
Deep Mikey
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Btw, Feller is on the list of the Qualifiers for the World Cup 2011 on the FIDE site...
http://www.fide.com/component/content/article/1-fide-news/5307-qualifier...
No sanctions at all or just a mistake?
Thomas
8 months 3 weeks ago
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For the time being, FIDE may hope that Feller does not sign the player's contract to confirm his participation. The deadline is 20th June, but it's already more or less known that some qualified players will not participate: Anand, Carlsen, Aronian and Kramnik play the Botvinnik Memorial that overlaps with the World Cup. Gelfand mentioned that he will not defend his World Cup title because he is now already (at least) qualified for the next candidates event.
But I guess Feller wants to participate - after all, he could only play the European Championship (ignoring the verdict of the French federation) because it fell into the appeal period of the first decision. Then there are several cans of worms:
- Could the French federation prevent his participation? If not, can they punish whoever might be Feller's second in Khanty-Mansiysk (provided that person is also French)?
- Should FIDE automatically accept and adapt a verdict by a national federation? A hypothetical but not all absurd example: what if the Azeri federation bans Gashimov (for whichever given reason, but the actual one would be that federation officials don't like him)?
At an early stage of the Feller case (right after the Olympiad), FIDE (or one FIDE official) apparently advised the French federation to handle the case internally - which actually makes sense to me, they had access to all the evidence. But now FIDE can no longer consider it an internal French affair ... .
To make things even more "interesting", double justice would be done if Feller is, after all, excluded from the World Cup: Next in line would be Parligras, who was the main victim of the tiebreak scandal during the European championship.
Capablanca
8 months 3 weeks ago
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I have the feeling that open chess tournaments are in a transitional period. With today's technology, chess programs on a mobile phone for example, very serious measures have to be taken by organizers and even those measures are not a guarantee for fair play. In a tournament with a limited amount of players mobile phones should be banned. If FIDE gave an automatic loss for a phone ring during a game why can't they do the same for a mobile phone at a table. In a few minutes we will see Federer vs Nadal, do you think either one of them consults his mail during rest periods?
In this new cheating affair, which is much less elaborate than the one in the Olympiads, the german player had the manhood to admit that he had cheated, unlike the french players. I wonder, how come the cycling world can perform blood tests and can examine team vehicles during a major competition and the chess organizers can do practically nothing.
help
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Exactly, in other sports they can't carry their phones either.
Can the chess world get real here?
Janis Nisii
8 months 3 weeks ago
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I can't think of a sport where hundreds of players play simultaneously for many hours in the same place without having a locker or a dressing room to leave their personal belongings.
This is the problem with chess tournaments.
Of course I agree that any electronic device should be banned during tournaments, but this is not an easy task at all.
I imagine stolen/damaged phones claims, if we let the organization take care of the phones, and insurance policies to cover these things (which are very expensive), if doctors who claim they have to be reachable because of their duties, etc...no, not easy to solve.
arbiter
8 months 2 weeks ago
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Solution:
Install small lockers sized for a cell phone and keys, and no more at the tournament entrance. 500 small lockers.
The lockers cost 50 cents to use and are required if one decides to bring a cell phone to the tournament.
Effect:
This small charge will pay for the lockers rapidly, and a portion of it can go into the prize fund once the investment has been recouped.
Players will feel more comfortable, and confident, particularly in large open tournaments. This cuts off the primary means of cheating, rather than just discouraging players to do it.
jhoravi
8 months 3 weeks ago
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What cellphone was he using? And what chess software? I'm just curious
Andy
8 months 3 weeks ago
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To his credit, Natsidis acted decently once he had been caught by admitting and apologising. He could possibly have gotten away with it by not showing them the chess application with the position from the game.
This is very unlike the French case when Feller has acted very badly since the allegations came to light by throwing accusations back at the French federation and vehemently maintaining his innocence despite overwhelming evidence against him (acting like most sports cheats).
I agree with Arne Moll that it is an overrated problem. Cheating seems to provoke an emotive response in people leading to daily mailesque arguments, as can be seen by some of the comments above ('ban for life' etc) which are daft.
Septimus
8 months 3 weeks ago
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What lol? If you go murder somebody and tell the police "yeah man I did it, sorry" , should we appreciate the murderer? Cheating should be severely punished. Nothing short of a long ban.
Septi Is A Fool
8 months 3 weeks ago
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This is sooo bullshit. Pleading guilt and showing regret is taken serious in all developed justice systems. You should be more like Natsidis and also study law.
We all make mistakes man. All what matters is what we learn from it. But you only want punishment.
Karma will get you. Good luck.
Thomas
8 months 3 weeks ago
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If the description by "Eye witness" (that's his chosen handle, "Augenzeuge") on Jan Gustafsson's blog is correct, Natsidis only admitted what was obvious with at least one witness present:
"Before GM Siebrecht accepted the draw offer, he informed the arbiters Alt and Klühners. Back at the board he accepted a draw and then went outside with the officials and FM Natsidis. Mr. Alt asked Mr. Natsidis to empty his pockets, Natsidis complied with a puzzled look. He first showed paper tissues, several sheets of paper and some pens, then the expected mobile phone finally appeared. Mr. Alt activated the phone and opened a chess application. After the position of the just-finished game appeared, there was little room for excuses and Natsidis admitted that he had assistance during the game."
This slightly differs from Siebrecht's own description, who "knew enough" once the smartphone appeared. For what it's worth, the notation implies that neither player offered a draw, but the game ended with a threefold repetition.
It would have been a somewhat different story if Natsidis had immediately confessed before his pockets were searched - but maybe he was hoping that the arbiters would give up after seeing a few irrelevant items.
Maybe Natsidis deserves credit for approaching the opponent to give his excuses - though it might already be part of his "damage control" defensive strategy. There wasn't much room for a Feller-style counterattack, maybe something like "you don't like players from Saxony"? GM Bindrich, who was forfeited in round 4, is also originally from that part of Germany and still lives there - nonetheless this would have been a pretty cheap cheapo IMO.
Septimus
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Sure thing genius. Do away with all accountability. How this fair to the other players? Quit smoking dope.
Janis Nisii
8 months 3 weeks ago
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I very much doubt Nadsidis did this only in the last game and only during this event.
I remember him in the Mariembad tournament http://www.czechtour.net/history/2007-2008/marienbad/
after having lost the first round, he asked his second round opponent, through the arbiter (!!!) to draw his game without playing (he wasn't even present in the playing hall!). The arbiter insisted justifying this with the fact that if he drew he would have preserved his chances to make an IM norm.
His opponent refused to agree to a draw without playing and Nadsidis withdrew from the event.
These people seriously damage the game. Hope he stays away from Chess (and law, possibly) in the future.
TMM
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Wait, he claimed a draw on the basis of wanting to achieve an IM norm? Good to know; I'll just enter some closed IM round robins and claim draws (or even wins?!) to get my norms then :)
CAL|Daniel
8 months 3 weeks ago
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It has been done before. Daniel Rensch claimed an IM norm from -1 in the Spice Cup 49 sufficed as he was the bottom seed and the only player under 2550. 0 wins. 8 draws and a loss.
Janis Nisii
8 months 3 weeks ago
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@ TIMM: Well, technically he didn't claim anything, it was the arbiter (shame on him, btw) who did for him saying that the guy couldn't be there for some military reasons (this part wasn't very clear) and a draw would have kept him in the tournament, i.e. would have left him chances to get an IM norm which was the reason why the players were playing there.
Alexander
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Official tournament rules will have to adapt to growing popularity of smart phones. A good start would be mandatory registration: when they're signing up for a tournament, players should formally acknowledge the fact that they will be carrying a smart phone during gameplay, and also sign a guarantee that they do not posses any chess software on their phones. All players who would carry an unregistered smart phone during gameplay would get disqualified upon the discovery of the fact, as well as those with chess software on their phones.
This precaution would basically amount to a single signature at the start of the tournament. Perhaps it does not prevent systematic cheating - one can always simply not register the phone - but it does offer an additional discouragement. Formal rules strengthen the feeling of cheating, of doing something harmful. If a player binds himself to clean play with a signature, he will be much less prone to occasional cheating.
In every case, FIDE will have to react with new rules regarding open tournaments.
Janis Nisii
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Alexander, this is quite complicated and a bit useless, unless you can freely frisk people, which is against the law in most countries, unless the players allows you to do so (only police - generally - can do a search on a person).
I don't understand why people have to bring a phone at all while playing, or any electronic device (watches included) for that matter. It's far more simple to forbid any electronic device and privide small lockers for personal belongings (similar to the ones at the gym clubs) in an area that is forbidden to they players during the game.
Probably organizers will have to buy scanners or what's the name of the devices that detects electronic devices, and write in the tournament's rules that players are disqualified upon detection of any electronic device.
It could also be a good idea to include the authorization to perform personal searches in the rules, so that the players who don't want to be searched, can't play the tournament, a bit brutal, but the only way out.
I'm afraid this is going to grow into a big disturbing paranoia.
jussu
8 months 3 weeks ago
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It really beats me why would anyone do this. One cannot possibly keep cheating to reach any considerable heights in chess hierarchy, and stealing a few additional points in a tournament or two seems just utterly pointless. Given that Natsidis admitted his deeds and expressed regret, it would be really interesting to hear his own thoughts on the matter.
help
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Good question, but people do. It's as simple as that. People even cheat online, where there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING at stake.
jussu
8 months 2 weeks ago
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Yes. I play online a lot, and during five years, I have played four games of which I am certain that my opponent used a computer. Maybe there were a few more, but maybe I am wrong about those four.
Stephen
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Maybe just having to sign in and out of the tournament hall every time you go to the bathroom would deter some cheaters.
WhatsNext?
8 months 3 weeks ago
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If you are cheating in a last round, when you already has enough points for a norm, then you probably also have cheated the rounds before...
Sergio
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Hence Arne Molls explanation that it might be a compulsury disorder. Cause cheating in this round didn't make any sence. Or was the price monney really high? Or maybe he bacan to think he couldn't play chess without aid and if he played terrible the last round people would question his earlier games.
I got a feeling he won't be invited in most tournaments anymore for a long time.
Hey
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Isn't Natsidis actually a Greek surname?
Mark
8 months 3 weeks ago
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The majority of people being caught cheating have been those cheating in a really crude manner . IMHO The possibility of cheating has take n alot of the shine out of chess in these sort of tournaments .
I think slow play chess is on the way out because of it - a solution would be to stick to rapidplay games players not allowed to leave the table during the game
Tomek
8 months 3 weeks ago
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If you look at the picture of Natsidis, you can actually see a bulge in his left pocket.
Sergio
8 months 3 weeks ago
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Is that an I-phone with a superstrong chessprogram in your pocket or are you happy to see me?
Simon
8 months 2 weeks ago
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I suppose that once a cheater has been exposed, then they are not going to cheat again since they know that their future games are going to be under scrutiny.A lengthy ban will be over the top but something like a 1 year seems o.k.I think that these cases of people cheating are very rear, the person would have had to be away from the board for many occasions.I have played in many chess tournaments and not once have I had to do a bowel motion, urinating is far more common.The total time that a person could be out of the playing hall should be limited and also the number of occasions.
Sergio
8 months 2 weeks ago
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I have to disagree on the amounts and time limit of leaving the playing hall. It is unfair for some players who like to go outside for a smoke or need the bathroom more often cause they drink lots of coffee during their games. Restricting them would be puting unneccesary stress on them which will influence their games.
I think a 1 or 2 year ban will scare cheaters enough to stop it. And it isn't a real problem in chess. It is so uncommon (to get caught atleast) that all the cheaters are known by name, which really damages the person enough I think.
Lamp
8 months 2 weeks ago
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"Three times, I made a move and it took 8-10 minutes for him to show up at the board. "
I tend to use the bathroom quite a lot (more than 3 times probably) sometimes when I am nervous or something during games. Does that mean I shall be suspected for cheating?
Simon
8 months 2 weeks ago
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Yes, if you go to the bath room and it takes 8 minutes to do what you have to do.I go probably 3 or 4 times also if the game is the 90 min + 30 sec type.But each occasion would only be about 2 or 3 min max.8 to 10 minutes on 3 occasions is too much.You have got to ask yourself why you play competitive chess if you are giving your self this huge handicap.
Simon
8 months 2 weeks ago
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Yes, if you go to the bath room and it takes 8 minutes to do what you have to do.I go probably 3 or 4 times also if the game is the 90 min + 30 sec type.But each occasion would only be about 2 or 3 min max.8 to 10 minutes on 3 occasions is too much.You have got to ask yourself why you play competitive chess if you are giving your self this huge handicap.Also if it is your turn to move and you leave the board the suspicion is even greater, I tend to make my move first and then go to the rest room, that way you have the least time handicap.
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