Schachbundesliga starts, all games live

13 Responses to “Schachbundesliga starts, all games live”

1. Theo on October 2nd, 2008 10:56 pm
   

   Anand is playing!?! A week before the match?
   I cannot believe that!
2. GeorgiosSouleidis on October 2nd, 2008 11:03 pm
   

   No, no. Anand will not play. “OSG Baden-Baden … headed by Viswanathan Anand and Magnus Carlsen”. This was meant in general. On the website of OSG Baden-Baden they admit that he is preparing for the world championship in Bonn.
3. flowerkraut on October 3rd, 2008 4:32 pm
   

   Let?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s be honest: This is all fine for the international chess professionals, but this is no German Bundesliga. 10 teams have only two or less German players in their top 8. The German champion Daniel Fridman plays on board 6, Big Artur Jussupow on board 5 and Robert H?ɬºbner on board 7. What a pity!
4. Tim Gluckman on October 3rd, 2008 8:28 pm
   

   These are German chess leaguesin the era of globalisation and open borders. I don’t agree with Flowerkraut; who is he or I to say what is German and what isn’t?
   Are we talking about Geuromany as it is now or an image of Deutschland from the past?
   I’m happy about some truly creative chess, tense contests boosted by the group dynamic, and heightened by players from many nations.
   And yes there are still plenty of people with German passports there too. Germany significantly liberalised its laws concerning citizenship some ten years ago.
   Better marketing needed
   One beef though; the Bundesliga should be better marketed than it has been. Hopefully the new corporate structure will help it to reach wider audiences.
5. flowerkraut on October 3rd, 2008 11:50 pm
   

   @Tim
   Sorry, but you didn?Ǭ¥t get the point. If an ordinary grandmaster is facing another ordinary grandmaster than this is just one game out of thousands. But if your well known ?¢‚Ǩ?ìlocal hero?¢‚Ǩ? (no matter where s/he is from) is playing a grandmaster, this is something different, especially if you have played your ?¢‚Ǩ?ìhero?¢‚Ǩ? before.

   There are a lot of teams, without any “boosted group dynamic”. Furthermore the gap between the 1st and the 2nd league is getting wider and wider and there are teams which won?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t take part in the Bundesliga because of the big amount of money it will take. This is ridiculous or as one sponsor said, ?¢‚Ǩ?ìwhy should I spend more money in my team, if I need an interpreter to talk with the players?¢‚Ǩ??!
6. Tim Gluckman on October 4th, 2008 2:00 am
   

   Goodbye Mr Ivanchuk! Farewell Peter Svidler! Would the chess public be happier in the minimised German chess world (almost) free of foreigners Mr or Ms Flowerkraut seemingly advocates? What this genderless emailer is saying is ?¢‚Ǩ?ìGerman chess leagues for the Germans?¢‚Ǩ? isn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t he / she? That has unfortunate associations in Deutschland.

   Adieu Mr Stellwagen! au revoir Monsieur Bu!

   I must admit that I would prefer to watch Bremen than Dresden. And with all due respect won?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t the play of the Dresden or Trier teams be improved by competition with players 150 ELO points higher? The best way to improve is to play against stronger opposition. By the way, in practice the top foreign players often have other commitments and so there are more German players taking part than one might expect from the lists above.

   There is no shortage of exciting and imaginative play in the Bundesliga, time-trouble infinity games that cannot be reconstructed; lots of blunders too.
   Is the glass half empty or half full? Why moan about the nationality? Enjoy the chess and atmosphere… free of charge BTW!
   http://www.schach.com/bundesliga/
7. Lajos Arpad on October 4th, 2008 3:28 am
   

   I don’t agree with you, Tim. A Bundesliga might be like this, but a german Bundesliga should be German. The other players are outlanders, they are not german. Ivanchuk might have a German passport, but he is not german. He is not better or worse than a german, but he is not german. A true german Bundesliga would be a good thing, because:
   1) Unexperienced players could get a chance to play with more experienced players.
   2) The level of play could be lower, but we could see what germans can do at this moment.

   Of course, we are very different. You believe in globalisation, I don’t, but please, respect those people too, who doesn’t think like too.
8. Tim Gluckman on October 4th, 2008 9:47 pm
   

   Facts competey refute the anonymous Mr / Ms Flowerrkrauts probably xenophonic — fears; a result of sb jumping to conclusions!.

   SPOT CHECK OF RD. 15 b-LIGA 2007-2008

   I have just done a rapid spot check of Rd 15 of the Bundesliga 2007-2008,.

   http://www.schachbundesliga.de/partien/default.aspx

   I found that of the 64 games played 42 were either German v German, or German v non-German. Given the general continuity of consistency (see below) of the teams throughout the season these figures would almost certainly be roughly consistent. So it is clear that a majority of BundeSliga matches involve Germans. If necessary Ioranyone else can do that.
   I AM VERY HAPPY ABOUT THE PRESENCE OF NON-GERMANS HERE e.g. in those 22!!

   HOW FLOWERKRAUT’S MISPERCEPTION PROBABLY AROSE

   I imagine Flowerkraut saw the lists of the teams above and then jumped to the conclusion that the team lists — at the top loaded with many usually absent foreign stars (e.g. Anand) — represent the realities of the teams during the season.
   This is very far from being the case.

   If he / she had looked at the actual teams that play the matches, then it would have become clear what actually happens: before the season begins, the team managers and mazenes (sponsors) make arrangements with foreign GMs (professionals) knowing for each ficture weekend, not many of them will actually be available. e.g. Ivanchuk and Avrukh at Remagen.

   LOCALS REPLACE FOREIGN PROFESSIONALS
   When the foreign players are not available, their places are taken by local players (GMs / IMs but usually amateurs) who of course are much more likly to be available.

   I make no apology for the detailed explanation.It is needed to get rid of misleading myths that can quickly establish themselves whatever the facts.

   I GENERALLY RESPECT EMAILS THAT ARE SIGNED

   Lajos, I respect you because you had the guts to sign what you wrote.

   A WHIFF OF XENOPHOBIA IN FLOWERKRAUT’S EMAILS
   After i started commenting on Flowerkraut’s comments, I realised that s/he might bey a xenophobe.

   I do not respect zenophobes. I hope I never will. Do you?

   I hope that I am wrong, and that Mr or Ms Flowerkraut, shielded by cosy anonymity will take the chance to dissociate himself / herself from Ausl?ɬ§nderfeindlichkeit (dislike / hatred of foreigners).

   It is indeed an offence in many European countries to express views closely related to xenophobia, another reason not to respect those who seek to push such views.

   One theme alone emerges from Flowerkraut’s 2 Emails i.e. negative comments about the alleged (see above) presence of so many non-Germans. Nothing in them about chess or specifically the Bundesliga except for unsubstantiated comments about an unnamed sponsor (why unnamed?). Comments that don’t make much sense to me at all.

   Lajos’s 2 arguments don’t convince me either.
   1) “Unexperienced players could get a chance to play with more experienced players.”
   (See the facts aboive.) And they can get such chances in tourneys to their heart’s content
   http://www.schachbundesliga.de/
   2) “The level of play could be lower, but we could see what Germans can do at this moment.”
   Again we can see this in tourneys — of which there are many in Germany –

   Finally Lajos, you write addressed to me,
   “You believe in globalisation;”

   This is an ambiguous statement. Globalisation exists whether I Ilike it or not. I won’t waste your time with my views about it.
9. Lajos Arpad on October 4th, 2008 11:27 pm
   

   I don’t consider Flowerkraut a xenophobe, but even if he is one, we are talking about the Bundesliga, not about our political views. I simply don’t understand why is called a team event German Bundesliga, if it’s more international than German. We could call it a Bundesliga, but not a German Bundesliga.
   Let’s get a picture: What if, the israeli’s Bundesliga would consist of 30 jews and 50 non-jews? Would you consider it a jew Bundesliga?
   Or, the Uzbek nation’s team championship would consist of four Uzbek players and 60 non-Uzbek players. Would be an Uzbek team event?
   In my opinion an event’s name should define the event. For example, a World Blind Chess Championship shouldn’t be played by non-blind players. That’s the most important moral of my opinion.
10. Lajos Arpad on October 4th, 2008 11:29 pm
    

    “I don’t believe in globalisation.”
    I’ve meant that I don’t think that globalisation for us, human beings, because power will be distributed among a few select people, who will have the power to do what they want. As I see that the German Bundesliga is everything, but not German, I say that there is something wrong.
11. flowerkraut on October 4th, 2008 11:32 pm
    

    Dear Chessvibesteammembers!
    Can anyone tell us, why my further comment to Tim & Lajos had not been published? I certainly will not write them again!
    This seemed to be not very fair.
12. Stefan Schmid on October 5th, 2008 11:23 am
    

    Dear Tim.

    Come on. Cool down a bit. You call people xenophobe here. I really do not think that you get the point.This here is about chess and that is it. We do not need your endless analyzations of the bigger picture. To me you should attend a doctor and get some Lithium to fix this poor bipolar mind.
    Honestly.You should search for some help. Poor guy. You must be quite sick.
    Best regards.
    Stefan
13. peter on October 5th, 2008 12:09 pm
    

    This discussion is indeed becoming quite ridiculous. Therefore: comments closed.