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	<title>Comments on: Winners and controversy at World Youth</title>
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	<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/winners-and-controversy-at-world-youth-ch/</link>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Berry</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/winners-and-controversy-at-world-youth-ch/comment-page-1/#comment-102083</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Berry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=18983#comment-102083</guid>
		<description>&quot;This year only the Russian anthem was played during the closing ceremony as the most successful delegation (according medals)&quot;

Perhaps that needs elaboration.  Of the 36 individual medals, 6 were won by India, then 4 each by China, Poland and Russia.  I will guess that the &quot;most successful delegation&quot; factored in some sort of team performance with regard to the top 3 scores from a country in each section.   Yes?  It&#039;s a way of getting each country to send a large delegation (at least 36 players); national pride might get trumped by politics, but not commerce!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This year only the Russian anthem was played during the closing ceremony as the most successful delegation (according medals)&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps that needs elaboration.  Of the 36 individual medals, 6 were won by India, then 4 each by China, Poland and Russia.  I will guess that the &#8220;most successful delegation&#8221; factored in some sort of team performance with regard to the top 3 scores from a country in each section.   Yes?  It&#8217;s a way of getting each country to send a large delegation (at least 36 players); national pride might get trumped by politics, but not commerce!</p>
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		<title>By: Guillaume</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/winners-and-controversy-at-world-youth-ch/comment-page-1/#comment-101917</link>
		<dc:creator>Guillaume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=18983#comment-101917</guid>
		<description>Dkay, I agree politics should not be brought into play, it is just chess, and children chess at that. But it does not make much sense to complain that the comments are of a political nature when it was explicitly brought to this level in the letter of protest by Aviv Bushinsky and in the comments by GM Boris Alterman. Read again: 

&quot;I must say that this kind of boycott (if such occurred) strikes as a another example of how politics interferes with chess.&quot;(Aviv Bushinsky)

&quot;What reason had been cancelled the anthems issue of the all winners this year, if not a political one? It seems as Israeli anthem is not acceptable these days in Turkey.&quot; (GM Boris Alterman)

Of course, it is not entirely impossible that it was indeed for political reasons that the anthems were not played. After all, a clear case of politics interfering with sports occurred earlier this year in tennis when Israeli player Shahar Peer was denied the right to play in Dubai. But Shahar Peer was then the only player being denied the right to play, and the organizers had motivated their decision on the recent political tension between Israel and the Arab countries. Here however, as has already been pointed out, it was a whole group that was denied to hear their anthem, and there is no reason whatsoever to single out Israel as the political target behind that group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dkay, I agree politics should not be brought into play, it is just chess, and children chess at that. But it does not make much sense to complain that the comments are of a political nature when it was explicitly brought to this level in the letter of protest by Aviv Bushinsky and in the comments by GM Boris Alterman. Read again: </p>
<p>&#8220;I must say that this kind of boycott (if such occurred) strikes as a another example of how politics interferes with chess.&#8221;(Aviv Bushinsky)</p>
<p>&#8220;What reason had been cancelled the anthems issue of the all winners this year, if not a political one? It seems as Israeli anthem is not acceptable these days in Turkey.&#8221; (GM Boris Alterman)</p>
<p>Of course, it is not entirely impossible that it was indeed for political reasons that the anthems were not played. After all, a clear case of politics interfering with sports occurred earlier this year in tennis when Israeli player Shahar Peer was denied the right to play in Dubai. But Shahar Peer was then the only player being denied the right to play, and the organizers had motivated their decision on the recent political tension between Israel and the Arab countries. Here however, as has already been pointed out, it was a whole group that was denied to hear their anthem, and there is no reason whatsoever to single out Israel as the political target behind that group.</p>
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		<title>By: DKay</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/winners-and-controversy-at-world-youth-ch/comment-page-1/#comment-101898</link>
		<dc:creator>DKay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=18983#comment-101898</guid>
		<description>The isue here is not Israel but fairness. There is no question, reading the posts, that there are some in this thread who dislike Israel. They make that very clear and to them I say - so what? This is not politics it is chess and it is not politicians but children. If a child works hard enough to get to that podium nobody should play politics with their victory. Anthems were played in the past and the winners anthem has become part of our competitive culture. It should have been played here.

Oh, and perhaps those who used this site to post their anti Israel opinions might benefit from a game of chess with an Israeli child - it might purge then of their need to politicise everything......To paraphrase Freud; sometimes a chess game is just a chess game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The isue here is not Israel but fairness. There is no question, reading the posts, that there are some in this thread who dislike Israel. They make that very clear and to them I say &#8211; so what? This is not politics it is chess and it is not politicians but children. If a child works hard enough to get to that podium nobody should play politics with their victory. Anthems were played in the past and the winners anthem has become part of our competitive culture. It should have been played here.</p>
<p>Oh, and perhaps those who used this site to post their anti Israel opinions might benefit from a game of chess with an Israeli child &#8211; it might purge then of their need to politicise everything&#8230;&#8230;To paraphrase Freud; sometimes a chess game is just a chess game.</p>
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		<title>By: Arne Moll</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/winners-and-controversy-at-world-youth-ch/comment-page-1/#comment-101891</link>
		<dc:creator>Arne Moll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=18983#comment-101891</guid>
		<description>Politicians obviously shouldn&#039;t put their heads in the sand, Jim, but on an internet forum with people anonymously posting insulting comments, it&#039;s a whole different story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Politicians obviously shouldn&#8217;t put their heads in the sand, Jim, but on an internet forum with people anonymously posting insulting comments, it&#8217;s a whole different story.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Gagliastro</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/winners-and-controversy-at-world-youth-ch/comment-page-1/#comment-101885</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Gagliastro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=18983#comment-101885</guid>
		<description>It is obvious that the organizers did not want to &quot;offend&quot; anybody by playing the national anthem of Isreal. The solution was not to play any country&#039;s with an exception.Pitiful and outragious. The lame excuse was that they didn&#039;t have any time. Poitical correctness was taken much too far.

 Even in the chess world we must speak out when such as injustice is perpetrated. I would like to see Turkey banned from organizing international chess events in the future.

 Putting our heads in the sand when it comes to Isreal,as Arne suggests is not the answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is obvious that the organizers did not want to &#8220;offend&#8221; anybody by playing the national anthem of Isreal. The solution was not to play any country&#8217;s with an exception.Pitiful and outragious. The lame excuse was that they didn&#8217;t have any time. Poitical correctness was taken much too far.</p>
<p> Even in the chess world we must speak out when such as injustice is perpetrated. I would like to see Turkey banned from organizing international chess events in the future.</p>
<p> Putting our heads in the sand when it comes to Isreal,as Arne suggests is not the answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Nonationalism</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/winners-and-controversy-at-world-youth-ch/comment-page-1/#comment-101882</link>
		<dc:creator>Nonationalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=18983#comment-101882</guid>
		<description>Why play anthems at all at a junior event? Kids should not be bothered with politics and nationalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why play anthems at all at a junior event? Kids should not be bothered with politics and nationalism.</p>
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		<title>By: PolGer</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/winners-and-controversy-at-world-youth-ch/comment-page-1/#comment-101880</link>
		<dc:creator>PolGer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=18983#comment-101880</guid>
		<description>Dear Chessfriends
Chess is and was always influenced by people from many countries and cultures. We all appreciate that now Turkey has become a member of our modern chessworld. If you feel a little bit disturb by todays rotten chesspolitics you can listen to this beautiful melody

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP0jaenKrJ0

and to other national anthems
and then lets talk about chess again and forget about the rest for a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Chessfriends<br />
Chess is and was always influenced by people from many countries and cultures. We all appreciate that now Turkey has become a member of our modern chessworld. If you feel a little bit disturb by todays rotten chesspolitics you can listen to this beautiful melody</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP0jaenKrJ0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP0jaenKrJ0</a></p>
<p>and to other national anthems<br />
and then lets talk about chess again and forget about the rest for a while.</p>
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		<title>By: sergio</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/winners-and-controversy-at-world-youth-ch/comment-page-1/#comment-101879</link>
		<dc:creator>sergio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=18983#comment-101879</guid>
		<description>Why is it always Israel that is whining and getting politics involved with it. I won&#039;t say more about it, because they might accuse me of being anti-sematic ;)

Is it known if there are complaints from other countries? It would be handier to make a complaint together of those countries that didn&#039;t like that their  anthem wasn&#039;t played. 

But maybe it is better for the kids also not to play the anthems, it takes ages for them to wait. I guess almost none of the kids minded that their anthem wasn&#039;t played. All they wanted was their nice medal as fast as possible i think.  (I would at that age)

@Arne you are right about discussions about Israel. It is to controversial and lots of politics are getting involved, while this site should mainly focus at chess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it always Israel that is whining and getting politics involved with it. I won&#8217;t say more about it, because they might accuse me of being anti-sematic <img src='http://www.chessvibes.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Is it known if there are complaints from other countries? It would be handier to make a complaint together of those countries that didn&#8217;t like that their  anthem wasn&#8217;t played. </p>
<p>But maybe it is better for the kids also not to play the anthems, it takes ages for them to wait. I guess almost none of the kids minded that their anthem wasn&#8217;t played. All they wanted was their nice medal as fast as possible i think.  (I would at that age)</p>
<p>@Arne you are right about discussions about Israel. It is to controversial and lots of politics are getting involved, while this site should mainly focus at chess.</p>
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		<title>By: Goendi</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/winners-and-controversy-at-world-youth-ch/comment-page-1/#comment-101877</link>
		<dc:creator>Goendi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=18983#comment-101877</guid>
		<description>Very unfortunate for the organisation, but it was very likely to occur. Most remarks or comments initially got ignored or declined instantly. Communication was very low level, and some decisions on organisational level weren&#039;t thought through. It are these little things wich can be of importance, wich is why listening first and trying to find a middle way without instantly offending the other party might be worth it. It&#039;s a pitty that this happened on the last day, but it wasn&#039;t the only thing happening during those 12 days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very unfortunate for the organisation, but it was very likely to occur. Most remarks or comments initially got ignored or declined instantly. Communication was very low level, and some decisions on organisational level weren&#8217;t thought through. It are these little things wich can be of importance, wich is why listening first and trying to find a middle way without instantly offending the other party might be worth it. It&#8217;s a pitty that this happened on the last day, but it wasn&#8217;t the only thing happening during those 12 days.</p>
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		<title>By: WGIFM</title>
		<link>http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/winners-and-controversy-at-world-youth-ch/comment-page-1/#comment-101869</link>
		<dc:creator>WGIFM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=18983#comment-101869</guid>
		<description>@Guillaume Then, sorry, who is the &quot;kid&quot;?

 I just wanted to point at the plain fact, that the complaint was mostly about disrespect towards the delegations suspecting some political reasons behind (and precisely this is the reason why I think with the complaint they went too far). Nonetheless whenever an Israeli team is involved in such controversies this politival background is sadly true. F. i. a huge load of comments here were about West Bank and Palestine etc. and  not about organizing issues. (I think at a WCh playing the anthems is not an extra service- it is just normal).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Guillaume Then, sorry, who is the &#8220;kid&#8221;?</p>
<p> I just wanted to point at the plain fact, that the complaint was mostly about disrespect towards the delegations suspecting some political reasons behind (and precisely this is the reason why I think with the complaint they went too far). Nonetheless whenever an Israeli team is involved in such controversies this politival background is sadly true. F. i. a huge load of comments here were about West Bank and Palestine etc. and  not about organizing issues. (I think at a WCh playing the anthems is not an extra service- it is just normal).</p>
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